INTERVIEW. Sherwin Bryce-Pease, the SABC's chief United Nations correspondent on his journey from East London to New York, and the whirlwind work reporting on and covering America.

by Thinus Ferreira

Sherwin Bryce-Pease has been the SABC's New York correspondent at the United Nations for 12 years and counting, reporting on the UN as well as what's happening in America for SABC News, as the public broadcaster's United Nations bureau chief based in the city that never sleeps.

I reached out to ask him some questions and in this interview, Sherwin Bryce-Pease opens up about his education and professional broadcasting journey taking him from East London to New York, how he came to claim the space and when he started to feel like a New Yorker.

He gives insight into what his news job entails, talks about the world’s enduring fascination with the United States, and gives his thoughts on the American psyche during a very turbulent time.

Sherwin Bryce-Pease also reveals some of his fears, how New Yorkers are different from how you think they are, the challenges of the job and how the news diary works, and shares some advice for South Africa's next generation who maybe dreams of becoming a TV correspondent just like him.

How important is it for the SABC to have a foreign correspondent in the United States and a reporter based at the United Nations headquarters in New York?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: It's an interesting question and one that is similar to what was posed to me in my interview before I got this job in 2008. 

At the time South Africa was vying for a seat on the UN's Security Council, it was the largest economy in Africa, and it was trying to reshape the Apartheid-era's foreign policy in Africa, so in that context, it was important to have an African voice at the United Nations rather than just the news wire services that really just gave you a Western perspective.

To this day, I have friends and colleagues who work for Reuters and the Associated Press (AP) and Agence France-Presse (AFP), they focus on what the "P5" - the permanent five in the UN's Security Council are doing.

So it was important in that context to have an African voice and to look at the geopolitical issues from the African perspective which I think hadn't happened to a large extent at the United Nations.

The SABC has established its importance to have someone here, over the last 10 years having been here. I think what we've done is that we've crafted a space for this content on the SABC that if it were not to be there, it would be missed. We've opened up a space for this kind of content: US politics, the UN's general assembly, the Security Council, and the United Nations more broadly.

How do you decide what to do and to cover every day? There are so much much happening at just the United Nations and then the broader United States, including its politics, also makes so much news?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: We do not consume the news anymore, the news consumes us! So the news determines where we go.

I've been very fortunate, based at the United Nations, they tend to have day-to-day diaries that come out the day before. 

But you often get revised versions of diaries given the nature of news. So we do have a basis, so for instance on a Friday you get the diary of what's going to happen on Monday in the general assembly and is the Security Council meeting, or is there a press conference with a newsmaker.

In addition to our focus on the United Nations, we're also focused on what is going on in the United States and America has a president who likes to tweet a lot, so you have to monitor what he's saying by virtue of him being the president of the United States.

Of course, it's also the 2020 American presidential election so it's a very busy time in terms of news in this country. So the news determines what we do basically. At the beginning of this job in 2008 I would spend my weekends trying to figure everything out, calling people "how am I going to do this, how am I going to do that?". 

As we've grown into the job, it's become a little bit easier and we have this UN diary that forms a large part of what we do, but in addition to that its American election year. We're overwhelmed by the variety of things we can do in this country.

Some Top Billing presenters revealed a few years ago, especially when they were new, that they would go to overseas locations - for instance, the Paris Fashion Week - and said they initially felt very intimidated and everyone else seemed to know and do better: That every crew with a camera pushes for the best spot and eventually you have to learn to just push back and claim your space.

How long before you felt you "belong" at the United Nations, and had a grasp on how it works and your place as a journalist within the system?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: It's an interesting question, you know when I first arrived at the United Nations I felt very intimidated. 

You're part of an international press corps, senior journalists who have been doing this kind of thing and who have travelled around the world and who have been reporting from different locations. This isn't their first gig on the international stage as it was for me. 

I was the guy sitting at the back of the news conference, wondering when I was going to be brave enough. So I would push myself and I would eventually do it. And it's interesting, my colleagues noticed something in me rather than I did, and they pushed me to run for the United Nations Correspondents Association (UNCA) board.

'You're our Trevor Noah'

Then eventually I was taken to dinner by the UNCA president who was leaving and he was trying to coax me into running for the president position, and I was getting anxious and said I don't want that kind of attention because you have to ask the first question in the noon briefing, you have to meet with UN officials, there's an annual lunch with the UN secretary-general, there's the UN Correspondents Association Gala.

People saw something in me and pushed me and that's when I realised that I felt more comfortable in my skin, and in my skin's space and by being surrounded by all my colleagues. That was a lot of encouragement that my ears needed to hear and that's where I think my confidence came.

Within a few years, I felt comfortable in the space. Look, it's very intimidating to cover the UN because it's so vast. Just the building itself is so massive. One can get lost. You make a wrong turn and then you don't know where you're going. That acclimation took some time.

Once I felt comfortable I was able to do things beyond the job like president of the UN Correspondents Association, and to moderate a lot of events for the United Nations. The deputy secretary-general of the United Nations, Amina Mohammed joked the other day and said: "You're our Trevor Noah". 

How challenging was it to be UNCA president, because you still have to do your own work, and now you had to represent a whole group of journalists? 

The current White House administration has been making it so difficult for White House correspondents, so it must be so difficult to represent them if you're part of the White House Correspondents' Association. How was it at the UN to represent the press there?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: Fortunately we don't have the same challenges that journalists at the White House have. The United Nations is a completely different scenario.

I will be honest - it was a lot of additional work, unpaid work. You are essentially the bridge between the international press corps and the UN. We don't work for the United Nations but we work at the United Nations. We have our offices at the UN, we have access to the UN but we don't get our salaries from the UN.

It's people from around the world and everyone's got a different need. Office space is very limited so there's a long waiting list of international journalists who want to move to the UN but who can't because there's just not enough space. Then one leaves and another comes in. So managing that relationship is very important.

We have a very good and continue to still have a very good relationship with both the secretariat - which is the arm under the secretary-general's office - and the spokesperson's office. Then they have an entire division called the media accreditation and liaison unit. 

So there is an interaction between what they want basically, because they control everything, and our needs as the media. So they've legitimised our role at the UN, they give us space and I've had a very good relationship with the United Nations and continue to do so.

I think you grew up in East London and now you're in New York. Can you talk a bit about your educational and professional journey?

Sherwin-Bryce-Pease: Yes, I am from eMonti in the Eastern Cape.

I grew up and went to a primary school called Saint John's Road Primary School. My mother was actually a teacher there. Remember we were segregated in the 1980's and 1990's so that was a brown or we'll call it "coloured" school with Indian, black and brown kids. So it was mixed but no white kids.

Then everything sort of opened in the late-80's, early-90's. I went to high school in 1992. So my mother sent me to what was a former Model C school, Selborne College, an all-boys' school; a different scenario - suddenly you had a big swimming pool, tennis courts, rugby fields, cricket fields, a shooting range, debating club. You know, a lot for a brown kid to take in.

It was a very intimidating time, that transition period in the early-90's. Everyone was focused on what was happening on a national level but I feel that the kids - the teenagers, 13-years old, acne everywhere - I think kids went through a very difficult time.

Suddenly white people were thrust into a classroom with brown kids or black kids or Indian kids that they have never interacted with necessarily before. So we were suddenly sitting next to someone who you really didn't know their background or where they came from. 

And you were trying to focus on what the teacher was saying but there were all those dynamics that we as kids had to grapple with. And there were obstacles and racism and fights and all those difficulties. As kids we didn't run to our parents to talk about it. We were going through a lot as brown and black kids and I'm sure for my white counterpart it was very different.

No-one sat us down beforehand and said "Hey, this is going to be an interesting experiment, let's talk you through it." So we figured things out for ourselves. 

I've been interacting with some of my peers from that period who are still in East London and they say "Wow, Selborne College has changed so much since those days."

Progress is slow but don't forget what little kids had to go through while everyone was focused on the national project that was South Africa's national project from Apartheid to democracy.

After school I went to Rhodes University, I did a 4-year BA degree in journalism. That really changed my life. Before you could get into the Honours 4th year you have to choose a speciality - TV, design, print, radio. I chose television.

'Reuters called and said 'Hey there are floods in Mozambique and we'd like to send you'

Before you could get into the TV class you had to do a 6-week internship at a place they would find for you, so I got a place at Reuters which was really just an amazing experience, so much so that after I had to go back for my 4th year, Reuters called and said "Hey, there are floods in Mozambique and we'd like to send you, can you get time off from university?" 

I went to my professor and I said this sounds like a great opportunity can I go, and they said you can go, but then you can't come back, so I said "Okay, nevermind" and finished my studies. 

I did a year in the United States and did an internship with an alumnus of the university who owned a strategic marketing communications company.

When I left the States I really felt in my heart that I could live and work in the United States. I really thought that. I went back to South Africa and got a job at the SABC and the nice thing about the SABC despite things people might think about the SABC is that it's so big that you can work in all kinds of different areas of journalism.

I started with NewsBreak the online division, then I moved to SABC radio, radio news SAfm, bulletin editor, then I moved to SABC2's Weekend Live where my co-anchor was Sindy Mabe as an extension of Morning Live and then I would fill in on Morning Live.

I've been waking up for 3 or 4 years doing Weekend Live at 3:30am on a Saturday and a Sunday. I was in my late-20's. So all my friends were out during the weekends. 

I remember literally driving in to work on a Saturday and a Sunday and when you go through Melville - I lived in Linden - people were leaving the clubs and the bars and I would feel this hollowness. I thought: "These people are not going to be watching Weekend Live this morning".

I couldn't do the morning stuff over the weekend anymore. Then the New York job was advertised internally and I applied and got shortlisted. 

I went for the interview, and then my boss at the time, Tebogo Alexander, came to my desk at the Weekend Live office a few days later and tapped me on my shoulder and said "Careful what you wish for" and I didn't know what he meant.

So that's how the New York journey came about.

The " story from overseas" from the overseas correspondent always has this even harder battle to justify its place in the day's rolling news agenda. You still have the filing and time zone challenges in addition. 

In terms of agenda-setting, how do you fight for and make the UN/US story be "important" within the larger editorial process?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: It's an interesting question - how do we make sure that we carve out a space for ourselves?

There's such a lot going on - State Capture, an economic crisis, the Covid-19 pandemic. How on earth do you even have time for New York stories?

This year Covid-19 hit Asia before it hit the rest of the world. It then went to Europe and then came to the United States in a big way. In New York in particular, where I'm based, Covid-19 had a dramatic effect on the city that never sleeps. The city that never sleeps went to sleep. It went into a coma.

So we knew that this thing was coming. It might not be there yet but it's coming. Covid arrived here before it arrived in South Africa. 

We had the focus at the SABC that if this thing is coming we can learn from the United States and because New York was the epicentre we were on TV every day explaining it, interviewing health experts here and really trying to understand the science around it.

'South Africans are fascinated by what happens in the United States'

We could explain to South Africa some of the measures that they would have to implement. South Africa had an advantage in having a correspondent here able to talk about best practice before it was required back home. 

South Africans are fascinated by what happens in the United States - whether you're talking about Barack Obama's moment, right through to people who understood Donald Trump as a "billionaire" success based on what they saw on The Apprentice.

I just feel that there's a fascination with what happens in the United States. I know that my foreign editor Sophie Mokoena is always fighting for us and so we actually have a primetime SABC slot now every night between 20:00 and 20:30 for international news. 

So I'm basically on every day at 8pm because we're going through so much right now in terms of the pandemic and the American election all jammed together.

How long did it take for you to feel "I'm a New Yorker" in the sense of feeling that you fit in, know where to buy what, have friends and a sense of belonging?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: Good question, I was told when I moved here that it takes you 7 years to become a New Yorker. That was the official word from New Yorkers.

So once you've lived here for 7 years, that's your "rite of passage". I felt comfortable once I knew how the subway system worked. 

The first time I took the subway where you're not driving and you're not in control of your movements on a train, and the train stops and you stop - suddenly you're being jerked around and if you have motion sickness ... I felt light-headed and I thought "I don't think this train thing is going to be for me".

I was talking to my cameraman who is still my cameraman today, Aaron Berger, and I said "listen man, this train-thing is really making me feel sick" and he said: "Trust me, you'll get used to it. There's no better way to travel around New York, it's a big city, it will cost you too much if you take a car or cab every day - just figure it out and get used to it". And I did.

For me, when I knew that I was a New Yorker was - although I've never forgotten that I'm a South African first - but in terms of "New Yorker", was when people would ask me for directions.

This is a city that gets a lot of tourists. You walk out of my apartment there's a ferry over here, Statue of Liberty is here; lots of tourists everywhere. And people ask you for directions. 

I would always feel so proud giving people directions, sounding South African. And they are like "oh, where are you from?" And I say "I'm from South Africa".

Being able to tell people "Go this way, and take a left and then that way", that is when I felt like a New Yorker. When you can help people with directions. Because people panic - they're looking up, their GPS isn't working because the buildings are so tall, or they're pouring over and staring at a map, and I stop and ask "Where do you want to go?"

'I remember struggling to go through the turnstile of the subway. My card was just not working. And this New Yorker out of the blue stops'

People helped me when I moved here. People could see that I was lost. The first time I came to New York was right after 9/11 when I was doing that internship in California. Two weeks after 9/11 I came to the New York office that the man had here. 

I remember struggling to go through the turnstile of the subway. My card was just not working. And this New Yorker out of the blue stops and goes: "Do you want me to swipe you through on my card?" And he did. And just that kindness. That really shaped me.

You often hear that New Yorkers are horrible, they will ignore you, they will push you out of the way - not at all. 

Yes, It's a congested city, foot traffic is intense before Covid but people will stop and help you. They will do it quickly with a "Where do you want to go? Sure." People have always helped me and I've always felt it's my duty to pass on the favour.

How has the American psyche changed since from when you went to go and live and report from America, to now?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: America is often described as ... it's not a monolithic society. New York is such a melting pot of cultures.

My group of friends is an international group of friends, and that's not unique, even to people who grew up in New York. It's just how the city functions; you have the United Nations here and New York is a big hub in terms of how you travel from and into the United States, and from the United States.

New York isn't a microcosm of what it is to be in or an American, in general. You have Trump country, you have middle-America, rural America, and never the two shall meet. It's different political views, different social views whether its LGBT or evangelical Christians around abortion, so it's difficult to say how the American psyche has changed. 

I think a lot of Donald Trump supporters have been very, very happy to have him in the White House, they really believe he's a saviour to their social and economic ills. Then you have the Democrats who just feel devastated that Hillary Clinton didn't win.

In terms of the coronavirus I think the deficit of trust from leaders became very critical because there was a public health emergency. It became relevant to a lot of people because people are dying. 

I think a lot of people - and it's not unique to the United States - are going through a lot because of the pandemic and the social and economic impact it has wrought on society. I think this is a very, very difficult time in the United States.

When I came to the United States they were also going through a recession but then you had what was a euphoric moment for a lot of people with Barack Obama election as the first black president. There was a feeling of "wow, we can do this as America". Then they elected Donald Trump.

So I think people are perhaps confused as to what is that the United States represents today. They've had such completely different presidents over the last 12 years that it's difficult to say the country is moving in a specific direction. I think there's a lot of confusion here.

You have such a unique position as a South African TV news correspondent based at the United Nations in New York, we don't really have others. 

Also for a long time being a TV reporter wasn't seen as this aspirational job or an attainable career goal. As our media and TV news sphere grows, the role and stature of the South African TV correspondent is and has been growing. What advice do you have for younger people who see you and want to emulate what you're doing?

Sherwin Bryce-Pease: I knew you were going to end with a tough one.

Listen, I was very fearful when I got this job because you're trajectory in South Africa to be a TV correspondent or TV news anchor, for example, is different to what it is in the United States, or elsewhere in the world - you have to work in the field for many, many years and when you move into studio that is when you're our senior journalist and you've got the gravitas.

Sometimes as happens in South African television if you can read nice and you sound good and you maybe have a decent pace they put you on TV. It's a bit loopy in that way. My trajectory was quite different. 

I was very fearful of failure when I arrived in the States because it was a big deal to be appointed in the position and to come here and I knew there were people doubting my ability to do the job because I hadn't spent that much time in the field as say other reporters at the SABC or in South Africa in general. I felt I had to prove them wrong.

You have to work very, very hard. My job became my life. I had to prove the naysayers wrong but also you need to do your job - just the expense of having a resident South African correspondent living here, it costs a lot just given the exchange rate.

I've always felt the pressure to justify the economic expense attached to this job and to really create a space for the work that we do here and I think that we have achieved that. I've always felt that it's important. 

And it's not just being based in New York but whenever we travel right, because then there's an additional cost when you travel and there's a convention or when you cover a story in a different location. 

I haven't just covered the United States, I've been to cover events in South America and been to Cuba numerous times, I've travelled to Canada so you have to justify that expense all the time and that's always in the back of my mind.

'Make your job unique - especially within the broadcasting sphere'

You have to work hard at your craft on a daily basis. Interact with your colleagues. Learn. What I've discovered is what is actually very beneficial is to work as part of an international press corps where you can really feed off of and see what other people are doing. 

You all work in a very small space, covering the same stories: "Oh, I saw your interview that you did with this person," and you take some notes about that.

You have to keep an eye on and understand what the competition is doing. Make your job unique - especially within the broadcast sphere. What's your style going to be? Is it going to be different from someone else's?

Once you've got the content, once you understand the story, you then have to articulate that story in a certain way. 

You have to bring "Sherwin" into the story. He's going to tell it in the "Sherwin-way". People then either like it or don't like it. I'm a little eccentric maybe on TV, I like to crack a joke from time to time. 

Bring your personality, especially in broadcasting. 

When you talk on TV, always do it with a bit of a smile - push those cheekbones up. Dress well - if you have a nice tie and a jacket put that on - that's half the job sometimes in TV.

South Africans are very "woke" now. They will call a fool out the minute they see it. So you have to understand the story you're reporting and sometimes the story is complex. 

You have to take that interview with the candidate for the position of director-general of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and make sure that your mom can understand that interview, or your grandma, or someone living in a rural area: Why does the WTO matter to someone in Phalaborwa or in Kimberley? 

Yes it's important to work very hard and understanding the story and the details of it, and then being able to articulate it in your own personal style so that people at home can understand it. Always find your unique voice. You don't want to sound like the other guy.

Remember the interview that Larry King did with Felicia Mabuza-Suttle many years ago when he said "you're not Oprah". I am not Anderson Cooper. I am not Chriselda Lewis. I'm Sherwin. So you always want to have that unique voice. But as the basis understand the story and know the facts.

Watch and listen to Sherwin Bryce-Peace reporting from New York on SABC News (DStv 404) and across the SABC's various TV news bulletins and radio stations.